Episode 283: Leadership Excellence: Attracting and Retaining Top Talent in Insurance Asset Management

 

Stewart: Welcome to another edition of the Insuranceaum.com podcast. My name is Stewart Foley, I'll be your host. Hey, welcome back. We're happy to have you. We are officially the home of the world's smartest money. We've trademarked that phrase. We're super excited about it. That's not to say that insurance investors have a better crystal ball than anybody else, but they do have a great deal more externalities to deal with than other institutional investors. And so we thought that was a good way for us to recognize the skills and talents of our community. We've got a really interesting podcast for you today and something that's a little different but important to everyone, which is managing your career from both sides of the desk. And we're joined today by Milena Humplik and Margot DeMore, who are the co-founders and managing partners of Broad Street. Ladies, welcome. Thanks for being on. We're thrilled to have you.

Milena: Hi, Stewart. Hi, everyone. So great to be back.

Stewart: So full disclosure, we're good friends, the three of us, right? So I believe, Milena, you and I met back when I was working with you to get a job at... I ultimately got fired as a result of this, but nevertheless, but that's been a minute ago. That's been, I'd say, over 20 years.

Milena: 2004. Yeah. Over.

Stewart: So right at. And you guys have built quite a business and you're involved in a lot of different aspects. And right before we came on, Margot was saying, "We work with leaders in building teams and we work with individuals to advance their career." And so that's the title of the podcast, ‘from both sides of the desk’. So I was just told, Milena just told me offline that we did not do the first job and where'd you grow up thing the last time. We did do a little bit about the where'd you grow up, but I really do want to know what your first job was, not the fancy one. So Milena, I'll start with you. What was your first job? Not the fancy one.

Milena: So I was thinking about that last night because I feel I had so many jobs, I think as we all did, taking care of younger siblings, but my first job, my first real job was at 13 and a half, McDonald's. I love McDonald's. And McDonald's was truly, I think, even like our American story. And as I think you know my story and so does our network that we were immigrant family that came to the US when I was 10. And didn't have a lot of money. My parents were on welfare. My father worked as a parking lot attendant. My mom cleaned houses as he was trying to get through dental school in Boston at Tufts. And my twin brother and I constantly just wanted to make money. And so we're so excited that at 13 and a half we got hired at McDonald's. And I loved the uniform. I was a cashier.

My twin brother worked the french fries. We had an awesome process. And what I loved about McDonald's is that they had a very clean environment. They always got rid of the food after about 15 or 20 minutes, they just threw it out. So between the burritos, the hamburgers, everything, because we didn't have a lot of food at home, I started bagging a lot of the food and leaving it in the back to take home to my younger siblings because it was delicious. We loved the french fries, we loved the hamburgers. And so my manager came up to me once, Milena, "Do you need help? Do you need us to bring it over to you?" And we're like, "No, we're all set. It's all good." So McDonald's was where I first started working and I love McDonald's french fries to this day.

Stewart: You know what? We share that. I started at McDonald's too. I mean I had other jobs like you, but that was my first, you got to show up at a certain time and there's a process in place. Margo, what about you? What was your first job? I can't wait to hear this.

Margot: So my first job, although not really a legal job, because I don't think I was of legal working age, was babysitting. And that's really where I feel like my sales career began because everything in life is sales, especially trying to convince small children to do things that they don't want to do. So I honed my skills of persuasion and influence. And for me, I was really most interested in making sure those kids went to bed at time because then I could watch TV. And I grew up in a house where we didn't have cable, we also did not have a lot of junk food. So for me, babysitting was this amazing job where I could make money. I think I made $6 an hour, which felt like a lot of money. And after the kids go to bed, I could watch MTV, which was my passion as in early pre-teen.

Stewart: I love that. One of the things I guess I'd like to know is just, and I guess the first question goes to Milena. When you look at across the insurance industry and there's a lot changing, what skill sets are currently in demand and what are the key factors driving that demand?

Milena: I think first and foremost there has been continued search activity and needs across as these alternative private equity organizations have been building out various insurance solutions businesses. There's been a lot of growth across third party insurance asset management as well as M&A as these investment insurance verticals and frameworks and organizations have been being built. And so what we've been seeing and what we're anticipating and seeing is continued heightened activity across very technical insurance skill sets. So across the world of strategic asset allocation, ALM risk, quantitative actuarial disciplines, we're also seeing a lot of search activity and demand across more capital markets and structuring insurance investment profiles. And so as these alternative PE firms have been building out these various businesses, they've been recruiting heavily outside and inside the insurance allocator investment organizations. Compensation's has been higher. And so that's where a lot of the moves have certainly been built.

And so that technical discipline is very much in demand. And so we're seeing a lot of calls from the allocators as well as these newly formed insurance businesses. Coupled with that, what's certainly very much in vogue is both that technical skill set, also that insurance asset management distribution skill set, but also that combination of that EQ intellect. So leadership skills as well as the ability to have very strong formed communication, stakeholder relationship management, those types of abilities. So it's been a heavy recruiting environment in the insurance vertical last year, and we're seeing a huge kickoff for 2025.

Stewart: Yeah, I mean it's interesting. The reason I started this firm was that I couldn't get a job in the business. So, there's a big surprise. And it's interesting because the price points have just gone up and up and up, and I've had conversations with about 20 managers that have all said the following, "We've put our collective heads together over here and we have decided that insurance is our key to strategic growth going forward." And I'm like, "Yeah, I hear you." And our events are full. I mean, we have no sponsorship slots available for all of 2025. So our focus is to get the right LPs to the right events so that we can solve problems for them. And we always tell them, bring your hardest questions and your most difficult problems and we can get something done. But there seems to be a very strong, at least from our experience, strong interest as well, which corroborates what you're saying.

So what often happens, and this has happened of late, is internal teams have found themselves being moved out, some folks have been let go and whatever else. And so it comes to the career transitions question, Margot, and it reads something like this. If somebody finds themselves in a situation where their position has been eliminated or they've been restructured out, what advice would you offer them on next steps? And I think this is so important because I think a lot of people like when you've got a job and everything's going fine, but then all of a sudden you don't, and sometimes folks really struggle with that.

Margot: Yeah, I think that it's an experience that most people have at some point in their career, if you are lucky to make it through a long career and not have displacement at some point, but it's very jarring and scary and unsettling when it happens. And I think most presume that it's something that happens to other people but not to them. And so it's something that people rarely see coming. And so I really encourage people to take time to process that loss and to resist the urge to, in a panic and from a place of insecurity, rush into conversations. But to first really take time and take the opportunity that has been given them to reflect and really think about what do they want that chapter to look like going forward? And at this point in their life and their career, what is important to them and what are the talents and things that they can bring that can drive value for an organization and what do they need to feel valuable?

So much of what determines someone's success in life is relationships and your network really is your net worth. And that's why Milena and I really encouraged and reinforced for people the value of maintaining relationships and maintaining a connection across your professional network. But many, as we all do, we get busy, we get focused on the task at hand, we've got other things in our life that we need to attend to and take care of, and networking falls to the bottom of the list until we get called into our boss's office and HR is there and we are now starting a job search that we didn't know we need to. So I think taking time to clear your head, have clarity of where you want to go, approach with the right positive mindset and embrace the opportunity that is in front of you. And it's obviously scary when you don't know what the future holds, but the reality is, even if we think we know what tomorrow looks like, none of us really do.

But I've seen, and Milena as well, and I'm sure many others, that 90% of the time a year later someone's really happy for that displacement because it's helped them create a new chapter. It's helped them continue to evolve and develop new skills and reach potentials that they wouldn't have been able to had they not been forced to get out of their comfort zone. So it's scary and hard, and I have a lot of empathy for folks, but I think it's leveraging your network, looking for ways to continue to build new connections, being open to guidance and perspective from others and having clarity of where you would like to go, but also being open to others' perspectives and views of how your skills and experiences could translate into a new chapter. And obviously recruiters are a big part of successful career searches, but not every opportunity comes through a recruiter. So it's important to have a multi-pronged approach and not rely on any one resource or source.

And if someone hasn't taken the opportunity to build a relationship with a search professional throughout their career, it's really important for them to leverage their network to make those connections and introductions.

Stewart: Yeah, and I used to tell my students it's like networking is a lifelong thing. Don't just network until you get a job and quit. You've got to keep networking and those professional relationships can often last you for a long, long time, which turned me to candidate motivations. And for you, Milena, what are some of the reasons that candidates have shared with you for exploring new opportunities in the insurance asset management space?

Milena: Sure. And a great question, Stew. I think there's a couple of things, and this is certainly a big piece of what we do. So when Margo and I go to the market and kick off a new search, we certainly go to our relationships, we go to our network. And through referrals, we engage individuals that are certainly at the competitors. And a lot of times they're doing well and they're probably keeping their head down and aren't open, aren't in active search. And so it's always interesting to form that initial relationship to find out what are their motivators, what's inspiring them, where do they see their career going forward? And I think number one reason why someone might not engage and be open to exploring external opportunities if they've got a great leader, if they've got a great boss, if they really feel connected, if they feel that they're being promoted and if they feel that they have a seat at the table and feel valuable and feel a strong value add to the overall business.

I think number two, certainly compensation. I think that certainly is an ability to approach someone, but that should certainly not be the number one driver. I think culture, a strong work culture and environment. I think through the question that Margot just touched on about restructuring and reorganization, that's caused a lot of these teams and a lot of these individuals to not be resourced. So if they've lost team members, they're now doing the job of two or three people and so they're overworked. And so that could certainly be an in for what else are you looking for? So I think those are huge, huge drivers and motivators. And then also that combination of work-life balance. I think we'll touch on that question as well is about back in the office and how many days people are spending in the office.

And so there's a lot of these pieces, but I truly feel that if someone feels very much connected to firm culture as well as their leader and feel that they are really overall a part of the business, they won't engage in an opportunity. And those are certainly those people that are inactive, open to opportunities if something exciting comes about. But that's a way for us to talk to them and really find out about what's really driving them and where do they see themselves going in the next 5 to 10 years.

Stewart: Bad boss is-

Milena: Huge.

Stewart: Huge, right? Bad boss is regardless of what you're making, people are like, hey, especially in this space. I mean, it's so hot right now. I mean, my phone has stopped ringing by the way, completely, but nevertheless, I hear it's hot. I don't know. I hear it's hot. So Margot, this one's back to you. So from your experience, what qualities define a truly great leader in today's evolving insurance asset management industry?

Margot: That is a great question and I think underscores the importance of high quality leadership as a retention. To me, it's certainly about someone's technical knowledge and abilities and being a subject matter expert, but really what separates the great leaders from the rest is their ability to really understand people and to have a very high degree of emotional intelligence and very strong communication skills. And to really be able to understand and appreciate different perspectives and point of views and where people are coming from, and to be able to bring people on a journey that can lay out a compelling strategy and be able to bring people together working in a coordinated fashion towards that goal where every individual, regardless of what their role is, feels that they are providing value and that they are valued.

Stewart: Yeah, and it's super helpful. I think that there's things that don't cost a lot, like telling people that they're doing a good job and that you appreciate what they're doing and things like that and treating them in a manner that reflects that, right? So I think that in addition to this, you mentioned earlier that you can have a career transition related to layoffs or whatever, most of us have had a bad boss along the way. And it's interesting to know that that can have a challenging impact on a firm. And sometimes the firm's not even truly aware of the situation because sometimes folks manage up better than they manage down. But it's interesting, I think that we've talked a lot about real estate on this show and it gives me to the question around return to office. Just for both of you, what is your view on the return to office trend? How are companies and candidates navigating that shift and what are the implications for talent attraction and retention?

Margot: It's been really interesting to see the impact of this ongoing unfolding dynamic as firms continue to evaluate their in-office policy. And I think there is no one-fits-all solution. And I think that there's value to both time together in office, and there's value to allowing folks to have a degree of flexibility that integrates life more seamlessly into work. And I think that's something that most of us got accustomed to during COVID and then readjusted to reality as we re-entered, and as we see these firms that are going back to office five days a week, that's very jarring and disruptive for a lot of folks. And I think going back to the leadership question, that's where we see a lot of organizations break down because there's a disconnect of understanding between those in the ivory tower and those that are more rank and file about what it means when you have to commute an hour each way and incur the costs of doing so and figure out different plans for care-taking that you need to solve for.

So I think it has to be purposeful, it has to be communicated in a way that is thoughtful and empathetic, but time together is important. And one of the unintended negative consequences for organizations that have moved to a more fully remote setup is that there's a breakdown of culture and there is a degree of disconnection that individuals begin to feel that grows. And part of what keeps people at organizations is culture and it is people, and it is that sense of connection and purpose that they feel. And when that begins to abate, they become much more open to the idea of a change. And when you add in the fact that the barrier for entry now for a conversation is much easier. It used to be you had to put on a suit and go across town and maybe risk getting seen by someone when you're clearly going to an interview, but now you just have to turn on a different monitor.

And so I think we've seen people be more open to change, and we've seen more attrition because of flexible work. And on the flip side, we've seen attrition because firms have been too rigid about their return to office policy. And so I think having flexibility when you can, I think having it really be aligned with purpose and business goals and be meaningful is important, but culture matters and connectivity matters. And while Zoom and these other tools are incredibly efficient, there is a connection that is lost.

Stewart: Yeah, I think there's something to that. That was a good answer.

Margot: I always do.

Stewart: Hello. So let's ask you both to dust off your crystal ball for a moment. As we look into 2025, what are your market predictions for insurance asset management? Are there any emerging trends that industry professionals should be preparing for? And just to add to that, Head of Alternatives seems to be a very hot title these days as insurance companies continue to diversify and expand their strategic asset allocation asset classes, doing new things. But what else are you expecting in 2025? Do you think we're going to stay this hot?

Milena: I do think that we're going to stay very active and very hot. And to agree with you on that combination of that skill set of leadership alternatives like solution investment acumen, I think that's a very key and needed skill-set in the marketplace. I think across the allocator organizations, we're seeing a continued lack of resources to invest, to assess these investment opportunities across these complexities of investment instruments. So going back to that technical skill set, that's going to be continued to be very in vogue and in demand. I think between the combination of evolving regulatory environments and continued market volatility and that in demand growth to insurance solutions businesses, I think we'll see a number of senior people moves. I think there's also going to be a number of CIO opportunities hitting the market, which will continue to be active. So I think it's off to a very strong 2025.

Stewart: That's fantastic. Margo, how's your crystal ball looking?

Margot: I echo everything Milena just said. I think another theme that we see continuing to emerge along the lines of alternatives because obviously that's been a big area of focus and it grows an attention for a lot of organizations, and the space has become very crowded. And so I think now firms are wrestling with the barriers to entry, but also the increased competition and the challenge of differentiating themselves and driving revenue.

Stewart: That's terrific. So I've gotten a good education today and appreciate you both very much. If you could leave our audience with one takeaway each, that would be fantastic. So what's your final takeaway? Milena we'll start with you about the information we've covered today, and maybe you look at it from the standpoint of someone who's earlier in their career and maybe there's somebody who's later in their career.

Milena: Sure. I think there will be obviously continued hiring across this insurance vertical. I think I would encourage from both what Margot and I have shared for everyone to lean into their professional brand, stay connected, go to industry conferences, connect with ex-colleagues, and a combination of data gathering and research and information to really figure out “What's the next steps in my career and how do I continue to build that?”

And along with that, we talked a lot about leaders and the great leaders, and I would encourage them to really wrap their arms around their team members and make them feel that they do have a seat at the table and that there's growth upside for them, and that if they are under resourced, that they will work and try to get them the resources that they need, compensate them well, and continue to show them a future. And I think everyone stay connected. And I think between Margot and I, we're very excited to be part of the insurance industry. We've covered it now for over 20 years and launched Broad Street 11 years ago. And Stew, you've been a huge part of our overall growth and we support you dearly, and we're so excited for what you've done to build your business, and we're excited for 2025.

Stewart: I appreciate that very much. We've been friends for a long, long time. Margot, what's your final takeaway?

Margot: So we've touched on this in a couple of different forms throughout the conversation, and I think you maybe even said this word earlier, but I think it's really all about human connection and kindness. And there's something that we all can bring to a conversation, to a relationship. And whether you're early in your career or later in your career, we all have value that we can bring. And so to really be open to creating those connections and fostering those connections and bringing your full, abundant, authentic self to every situation. And I think when we do that, we are able to achieve our fullest potential, which is a very individual thing. It's not one size fits all, but part of what Milena and I love about our work is helping organizations attract and make great hires and helping individuals achieve their fullest potential. And I think that when that happens, it's like the whipped cream and cherry on top of a sundae of a great career.

Stewart: Okay, so we've already offered career advice throughout the podcast, so I think we can skip that part of the closer and ask you to this. If you were going to go to lunch for a table of four, so you each get to invite one person, who would you most like to have lunch with, alive or dead?

Milena: Margot, you want to go first, or should I?

Margot: I'm thinking.

Milena: I know.

Stewart: Okay, go.

Margot: Well then go for it.

Milena: Dolly Parton.

Margot: Well, we already said that last time.

Stewart: But that's okay. You can-

Milena: I love Dolly.

Stewart: You love Dolly. Let's put her in.

Milena: I love Dolly. Entrepreneur-

Margot: I do too.

Milena: Gives back. A huge supporter of other businesses and people and her community.

Margot: I would invite Oprah Winfrey.

Stewart: Oh wow. That'd be a great lunch.

Margot: Yeah. I think she's-

Milena: Wouldn't that be a great lunch?

Margot: Oh my goodness. I think she sets a remarkable-

Stewart: The two of you and Dolly Parton. Yeah.

Milena: Oh my goodness.

Margot: Well, if you put it out there, I believe in manifesting, so.

Milena: It will happen.

Stewart: There you go.

Milena: We're going to go to Dollywood.

Stewart: That's right. The two of you, Dolly Parton, and Oprah Winfrey.

Milena: Oprah Winfrey.

Stewart: There you go.

Milena: That's correct.

Margot: I can picture Oprah Winfrey would be like, "Broad Street Consulting."

Milena: Yes.

Stewart: That's right. It's awesome. All right, listen, thanks for being on. I appreciate it. You guys do a great job and we can't say enough good things about Broad Street and your connectivity in the insurance asset management space and beyond. I mean, it is worth noting that, I mean, you do more than insurance asset management. Is that fair to say?

Margot: Very much so. I'd say insurance has been a big focus of ours for over 20 years now. But we think of us generally as financial services focus with most of our time spent with firms that manage money in some form or fashion.

Stewart: Very nice. Thank you so much. We've gotten an inside look at both sides of the desk for managing your career. We've been joined today by Milena Humplik and Margot DeMore, co-founders of Broad Street. Thanks for being on. Thanks for taking the time, ladies. We really appreciate you being on.

Milena: Thank you, Stewart.

Margot: Thank you, Stew.

Stewart: Our pleasure. And thanks for listening. If you have ideas for a podcast, please shoot me a note at Stewart@insuranceaum.com. Please rate us, like us, and review us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. We are the home of the world's smartest money. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next time on the Insuranceaum.com Podcast.